Greetings Fellow Comstoks! ([info]fengi) wrote,
@ 2008-05-16 08:35:00
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I'm In YR MySpace Shredding YR Rites!
Here's an update which relates to my previous post:
In their eagerness to visit justice on a 49-year-old woman involved in the Megan Meier MySpace suicide tragedy, federal prosecutors in Los Angeles are resorting to a novel and dangerous interpretation of a decades-old computer crime law -- potentially making a felon out of anybody who violates the terms of service of any website, experts say.

Lori Drew is charged with violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act "This is a novel and extreme reading of what [the law] prohibits," says Jennifer Granick, civil liberties director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "To say that you're violating a criminal law by registering to speak under a false name is highly problematic. It's probably an unconstitutional reading of the statute."

"Empowering terms of use to be key pieces of evidence in criminal matters -- when terms of use are generally thought of by the people who are entering into them as purely contract or civil maters -- is something that should be done carefully," says Andrea Matwyshyn, law professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton Business School. "I think you're going to have strong disagreement as to whether this is an advisable course to take."

...In a statement, MySpace says it supports the prosecution. "MySpace does not tolerate cyberbullying and is cooperating fully with the U.S. attorney in this matter," a company spokeswoman said. The company declined to say what the precedent would mean for otherwise innocent users who, for example, misstate their age or ZIP code when setting up their MySpace profiles.

"Theoretically, it applies to any use of a service in violation of the terms of service," says EFF's Granick, who says the impact of the Drew prosecution could be far-reaching.

By way of example, Granick notes that some terms-of-use contracts prohibit users from making negative comments about the company. "If you write on a blog something disparaging about that company, are you in violation of criminal law?"

Other contracts have prohibited visitors to a website from linking to that site.

..."Terms of use have been progressively getting more Draconian and restrictive," she notes. "So as these provisions get drafted and users agree to them, we may find ourselves in a situation where a company that drafts one may try to leverage this kind of case law to take a breach-of-contract action and turn it into a computer-intrusion [case]."

Granick agrees. "The real problem is that something tragic happened, but the harm that occurred doesn't have anything to do with the way they've charged the offense," she says.

"Normally you charge tax evasion because someone didn't pay taxes," says Granick. "Or your charge a computer intrusion because someone broke into a computer.... By overreaching legally the indictment makes some very extreme leaps."

When asked if this is the kind of case Granick would want to litigate, she said, "If [Drew] calls me I'd be very interested in talking with her about this case. I think there is such an extreme reading here, and I do think it's dangerously flawed for other cases. I think it's scary and it's wrong and something should be done about it."


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[info]cynthia_french
2008-05-16 05:44 pm UTC (link)
scary shit.

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[info]theryk
2008-05-16 08:21 pm UTC (link)
I think the woman clearly qualified for "Conspiracy" charges. They systematically harrassed, baited and slammed that poor girl. I think they are criminally responsible for the events leading to her death.

there's a world of difference between what she did and other "User Violations"...

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[info]fengi
2008-05-19 01:01 am UTC (link)
Um, no. That's not what happened. Read the New Yorker article. It was hardly "systematic" but very bad impulses arising from longstanding issues between the families, a prank which involved positive contact until the impulsive cruel comments written during a MUTUAL flamewar between teen participants. (see excerpts in second comment below).

The type of prank - tricking someone into thinking a boy likes them - is not new. The final message was written by an 18 year old and while it was cruel, "You’re a shitty person, and the world would be a better place without you in it." it wasn't a direct solicitation of suicide, but typical of flamewar excess.”

Megan's response was to choose to kill herself, a tragic, unexpected over-reaction to a thoughtless prank, not simple cause and effect.

I suspect if the pranksters had all been teens, or if Megan had been an adult, people would grasp this as cruel and wrong but also an unpredictable confluence of factors.

It sure as fuck doesn't justify irrational prosecution which sets dangerous legal precedents just to pander to a cry for revenge.

I am tired of this reactive "something must be done!" vengeful attitude which ignores how SOMETHING WAS DONE.

The mother confessed to the police, has been named, shamed and moved away. The state and federal attorney's fully investigated it and brought no charges due to a lack of law and evidence. A Bush appointed federal attorney of dubious reputation in a different state is bending the law to grandstand.

What is just and legal is not always emotionally satisfying. There's a good reason for this - because cases set precedent and consequences must be considered. Gratifying the mob's desire to see this woman suffer may be kinda sorta just in this one situation, but that same method could be used to punish all sorts of people you wouldn't think of as "deserving"

Suicide is a choice and even in situations where suicidal tendencies are known, it is not a predictable coherent event, because people lie, even to themselves, about it. This is the first thing pointed out to survivors of suicide - and it's why, for good reason, suicide is very difficult to litigate.

And if you think of how parents get wrapped up in their kids, how groups of people behave, is this foolish behavior really that unfathomable? Personally I believe pranks are largely a shitty and dangerous thing, because those pulling them tend to dehumanize the victim - but I don't want to bend the constitution to make someone an object lesson.

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[info]fengi
2008-05-19 01:02 am UTC (link)
Here's more on the what happened:"the year before, Megan and the Drews’ daughter had secretly set up a MySpace account. They were found out when a cousin of Tina’s discovered the profile, which featured a flashing Playboy bunny icon. The Meiers did not mention the incident to the Drews. According to Jack Banas, Lori Drew, going through her cell-phone bills, found that someone had placed a series of calls to New York. Lori’s daughter told her that Megan had made the calls, to talk to a boy they had met online. The Drews and the Meiers never discussed that incident, either...The purpose of “Josh Evans,” according to the Drews’ testimony to Jack Banas, was to ascertain whether Megan was making nasty remarks about their daughter, whom Megan had previously called a “lesbian.”"

This was a mother who chose to create a fake account with teenagers. They didn't "systematically" harass Megan, they led her on with flattery until one or more of the teenagers involved chose to be mean.

"The Drews have contended, through a lawyer, that “all messages sent”—from Josh to Megan—“were positive until the last twenty-four hours” of the correspondence...On October 15th, Megan received a message from Josh, written by Michele Mulford’s daughter from the Mulfords’ home computer. Mulford says that one day when her daughter was playing at the Drews’ house someone told her about the Josh Evans account, gave her the password, and encouraged her to join in the game...When Tina got home, at five o’clock, she found Megan in front of the computer in a state of superheated distress. An insult war had broken out among Megan, Josh, and some of their friends. Megan had called another girl a slut, and the aspersions were returned in kind. Ron says that after Megan died he discovered a final message from Josh, saying, “You’re a shitty person, and the world would be a better place without you in it.”"

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[info]theryk
2008-05-19 02:57 am UTC (link)
re: " 'the world would be a better place without you in it.' it wasn't a direct solicitation of suicide"

I find it hard to see that as anything but a solicitation, especially given the information (from that article" that:

"Curt and Lori Drew, who lived four houses down, had created �Josh� in concert with their thirteen-year-old daughter, a longtime friend of Megan�s." and "Megan had accompanied the Drews on several vacations, and they knew that she was taking medication." This is the same woman who said that she �felt this incident contributed to Megan�s suicide, but she did not feel �as guilty� because at the funeral she found out that �Megan had tried to commit suicide before.�

This seems to show intent to harass combined with intimate knowledge of a specific vulnerability in the target. I have to disagree with the D.A. investigating the case. A crime of the first degree? Dubious, but there seems a criminal negligence in how the woman defines what she did, and the result of her actions.

This wasn't covered by laws because there'd never been the precedent-creating event to bring it to attention (ie: before the internet there was never internet-fraud). This was the first I heard of the desire to move the legal proceedings half-way across the country. But, is this not because that's MySpace's legal perogative?

I stand corrected on some of the points, but I still think new laws need to keep pace with new technologies and/or social evolutions.

Mostly, I keep wondering about the difference between Law and Justice in this country. Even given that the mother confessed to the police, has been named, shamed and moved away, that will not balance the scales. What she has endured will never be equal to the loss of a life that she has an admitted hand in. I can't feel sorry for her.

Granted, and admittedly, my role as a parent definitively shapes how I look at this. But I think the woman did wrong and should face consequences. If a court of law determines that what she has endured so far constitutes punishment enough, then so be it.

But that's me. What am I missing? And who is the Bush appointed federal attorney of dubious reputation? I want to know more about that. Is MySpace just grandstanding with Wire-Fraud investigations?

Given the last time anyone associated with (or being an actual) Bush got involved in a case of noteriety (that I remember) was the Terry Schiavo case and that was several kinds of dangerous potential precedent-setting emotions-over-reason fucklaws.



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[info]fengi
2008-05-19 04:02 am UTC (link)
"Given the last time anyone associated with (or being an actual) Bush got involved in a case of noteriety (that I remember) was the Terry Schiavo case and that was several kinds of dangerous potential precedent-setting emotions-over-reason fucklaws."

And yet you will allow yet another potential the abuse of the law and a dangerous legal precedent because it fits your emotional reactions as a parent. Saying "for the children" is the refuge of tyrants.

"my role as a parent definitively shapes how I look at this."

You're looking at this is a parent who can't imagine holding their kid responsible for an act of choice as bad as suicide. A parent who would be moved to blame themselves, or someone else if possible.

Here's why I think you should know better as a parent: Imagine having a bad parenting moment in front of the wrong person ending up fighting the system to keep your kids. Hey, you might have been wrong so if you don't get to see your kids for a few days or weeks, so be it.

Or imagine your kid being expelled and arrested because they wrote something deemed threatening - hey, they should have known better, and if the system decided they didn't do anything wrong all the time and money lost is just tough shit.

Hell, imagine it was your kid who pulled such a prank. Would you say your kid should be charged with a crime? You are blinded because there is an adult involved - but it wasn't the adult who was involved in the triggering circumstance.

"Even given that the mother confessed to the police, has been named, shamed and moved away, that will not balance the scales."

So, what would "balance the scales"? Just how much more pain and suffering do you want to see inflicted before your hunger for vengeance will be slaked? Maybe the mother can die of a heart attack in jail and her kid can get raped in a group home after being taken away by family services and the father can drink himself to an early grave. Or do you just want them bankrupt and homeless? After all, no punishment can match how they held Megan down, put a belt around her neck and yanked her aloft. Oh, wait, that's not what happened.

"What am I missing?"

Apparently my entire post. Read it again. "To say that you're violating a criminal law by registering to speak under a false name is highly problematic. It's probably an unconstitutional reading of the statute." Making a fake profile isn't a crime - the precedent in court case is such online pranks don't even qualify as libel, let alone criminal.

They are attempting to charge her with fraud even though she didn't do it in commission of a crime. They can't charge her with the suicide because the irrational and unpredictable reaction is not a crime.

The girl killed herself. It doesn't matter if this prank was part of the triggers - being somewhat morally connected is not a crime. Knowing a kid is on meds doesn't equal knowing they're a suicide risk. Saying you feel guilty after the fact doesn't make you legally responsible.

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[info]theryk
2008-05-19 04:32 am UTC (link)
I actually was interested in an exchange of ideas. I admit to feeling conflicted and to being emotionally involved. But it is as a parent and as someone who's known too many suicides. Being called a tyrant for that is uncalled-for, as was your paragraph on what you think I think would balance the scales.

And saying "You're looking at this is a parent who can't imagine holding their kid responsible for an act of choice as bad as suicide. A parent who would be moved to blame themselves, or someone else if possible. " ?

You. Do. Not. Know. Me. Well. Enough. To. Say. This.

I didn't come swinging at you for statements I didn't agree on for the simple reason that I don't know you, outside of LJ and cannot conjecture what is in your heart. That's why I asked. I wanted to understand all this- and by extension, you-better.
That's why I ask questions.

But if you'd rather direct your ire and insults on me- for asking them; for admitting to what I feel on the issue emotionally, but that I don't really know all the facts, so I'm still trying to gather all the perspectives- then fuck it.

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